Rick Wise/Indians-Red Sox Game 2 Chat

October 13, 2007

“All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and men at last are forced to face with sober senses the real conditions of their lives and their relations with their fellow men.” – Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, The Communist Manifesto

Here is a portrait of a man on the brink of oblivion. Like all great art, this piece expands the conventional bounds of its genre, transcending the strictly figurative representation that was the function of late twentieth century baseball card portraiture with both the abstract wash of colors in the background and the apparent slight but jarring distortion of the body in the foreground. The figure, “Wise,” seems to have unusually long legs and wide hips in relation to the short torso and short arms, this distortion of the human form a seeming allusion to the powerful-legged, spindly-armed Tyrannosaurus Rex, which in turn gives the portrait overtones of great, fearsome power nullified by the certainty of extinction. This theme of extinction is furthered in the blurring in the background of what viewers at the time of the artwork would understand contextually to be the crowd, a gathering assembled for the purpose of cheering for and cursing and exalting and even in a crude way praying for and thus making sacred game-playing participants such as the one pictured here, “Wise.” The blurring of all faces in the crowd, coupled with the look of apprehension on the face of Wise and the aforementioned anatomical distortion of his features, creates a sense of ending, of things once solid melting into air. No faces can be seen in the crowd, only here and there among the shapeless colors small soft-edged spheres, the motif perhaps an attempt on the part of the artist to contradict the allusions to the famous quote above with intimations of an afterlife, as if the orbs were souls able to carry something of the individual beyond the inevitable cessation of earthly life, of flesh. Less ambiguous than the mysterious orbs is the fate of the central figure, Wise, whose allegorical name in this context, coupled with his obvious inability to cease the dissipation of the crowd (and, by extension, the dissipation of meaning, for what is a game with no crowd?) seems to offer a bracing commentary on the limitations of the rational mind, of human wisdom. There will come a moment when all we know won’t mean anything. Wise seems to be verging on this moment. He is either looking around to see if there is anywhere where things are still solid or he is looking back, trying to find a place and time he can cling to, something that will never melt into air.

If he is looking back, what is the object of his gaze? What can we cling to in our last moment? The portrait offers no clue, but on the back of this card (where artisans who created these works supplemented the portraits on the front of the cards with intricate numerology and text), there is a cartoon of a ballplayer without thick glasses and with a broad smile (free of limitations and sadness), looking at a scoreboard that tells the tale of a victory. Above the cartoon is the following line of text, which according to experts in the interpretation of the back of the card numerology is exceedingly far-fetched, the stuff of a fairy tale, suggesting that all we have in the end are fairy tales, slim, brilliant moments that are too good to ever have been true:

“Rick hurled no-hitter for Phillies vs. Reds, 6-23-71, and hit 2 homers in the game.”


  1. 1.  The lineups for tonight’s game:

    G. Sizemore cf
    A. Cabrera 2b
    T. Hafner dh
    V. Martinez c
    R. Garko 1b
    J. Peralta ss
    K. Lofton lf
    F. Gutierrez rf
    C. Blake 3b

    F. Carmona, p

    Red Sox
    D. Pedroia 2b
    K. Youkilis 1b
    D. Ortiz dh
    M. Ramirez lf
    M. Lowell 3b
    J.D. Drew rf
    J. Varitek c
    C. Crisp cf
    J. Lugo ss

    C. Schilling, p

  2. 2.  if anything I hope the Indians versus the BoSox series goes all the way

  3. 3.  I hope it’s a sweep, but my feeling is it’ll be a long tough series.

  4. 4.  The Rick Wise essay/parody is brilliant.

    Is everybody else’s local Fox affiliate as idiotic as mine is?

  5. 5.  Really, Tim? You were a catcher? I would think you would have mentioned it before now.

  6. 6.  4 – I dunno, mine continues to have Kevin Kennedy, Eric Karros, Joe Buck, and Tim McCarver provide “insight”.

  7. 7.  I kept hearing the “great postseason pitcher” talk about Curt, but I had no idea how good until I finally saw the numbers. Small sample size, but there is something to be said about going 9-2 with a sub 2 ERA in postseason games.

  8. 8.  I don’t mean to be repetative, but I am not sure I get the whole pearl thing yet… Am I the only one who thinks it’s odd to wear pearls to an at bat?

  9. 9.  4 6
    I can live with Buck (ecch, that sounds sick) but McCarver makes my insides want to turn themselves outside.

  10. 10.  Did anyone else see what Bob Ryan wrote about the Foul Ball Kid? He was critical of the Red Sox for having him throw out the first pitch, sniffing that people should be taught to never interfere with a ball that a fielder has a play on.

    I don’t agree-everyone knows the rule.

  11. 11.  7 – while I’m guessing most in the toasterverse would discount post-season numbers, I tend to be impressed by them because it shows what a player has done against the better teams.

  12. 12.  8 Only if they don’t match your spikes.

    In all seriousness, the opponent can ask that you remove jewelry, etc if you think it is distracting.

  13. 13.  From Cleveland.com on 8/29:

    Clubhouse confidential: No, that’s not a pearl necklace that second baseman Asdrubal Cabrera wears. It’s a necklace of beads that his wife, Lismar, made for him.

    They were married in December in Venezuela. “It’s good luck for me,” said Cabrera.

  14. 14.  Wow, James Taylor seems, um, high reading the line up

  15. 15.  11 Toasterverse. I like it.

    I would shy away from saying that it means one is somehow able to get superfocused and get all veterany and clutchy on us.

    It does represent performing well in critical situations against high quality opposition.

    I guess we in the toasterverse would not dismiss postseason success, but just call it a data point, to be placed in context like all good data points.

  16. 16.  Fox wouldn’t let him wear his reading glasses on air. And they didn’t time to print up a large type edition of the lineup.

  17. 17.  Hey Tim, 55 hasn’t been the speed limit for 12 years.

  18. 18.  14

    His singing voice is so soothing slash relaxing.

  19. 19.  Slash saccharine slash coma-inducing.

  20. 20.  Papi and the Bad Man: 36 postseason PA, 7 outs. Ouch.

  21. 21.  Carmonas sinker is like D-Lowe’s but on steriod, wow.

  22. 22.  13 Thanks for the info. That makes sense now. It’s sweet now that I know that. It was just so strange to see at first.

    12 They don’t match, but he makes the ensemble work.

  23. 23.  It seems like a patient team like the Yankees would have been able to do this against Carmona, too.

    It strikes me that Carmona’s money pitch isn’t a strike a lot of the time. Could it be that easy?

  24. 24.  15 – I think the psychological element of the post-season gets overlooked in statistical analysis.

    I forget who wrote it, but there was a column recently saying that there could be a negative side of “experience in the playoffs” – mainly using the example of A-Rod and the undying pressure of the NY media. I think another example would have been the Red Sox prior to winning the World Series, it always seemed like the team would lose it, mentally, as soon as one thing went wrong.

  25. 25.  23 – the key to beating a sinker baller is to avoid swinging at the sinker. A good sinker rarely will be a called strike.

  26. 26.  Well, inducing that GIDP was a clever trick.

  27. 27.  Curt does not seem to be fooling these fine young men from Cleveland. Everyone is making good contact.

  28. 28.  24 I think that’s just it. Psychological factors can’t be quantified, so they are not amenable to analysis.

    What passes for explanation from people like McCarver is what raises my hackles, though-saying that Schilling’s postseason success is due to the fact that his veteraniness and clutchiness makes him immune to pressure.

    He’s sure not looking very clutchy right now.

  29. 29.  I really hope Ned Colletti is not watching this game with the sound on.

  30. 30.  25

    your comment kind of doesn’t sound right, I’d rather let the sinker go deep into the strike zone & take it the other way. Carmonas sinker is just flat out SICK & I will agree (if that’s what you meant) that Carmonas sinker is rearely a strike in the early going, I haven’t seen much of him to be confident at what I’m saying tough.

  31. 31.  Hey,McCarver knows who’s in the NL west.

  32. 32.  24 : The Red Sox pre-’04 did seem to let the weight of history become a factor. Living in NYC in ’94, I followed the NY Rangers throw off a long drought in part by having Messier stare straight at history and say “bring it on.” Schilling helped the Red Sox do that in ’04. I think Schilling’s post-season numbers do mean something, but I also think the hype lately about it is a tad overblown.

  33. 33.  30 – I’m speaking in generalities. The sinker is a pitch, like the split finger, that, in my opinion is effective because of it’s late break. If you can sit on those pitches and drive them, absolutely.

  34. 34.  You’re right, though, Curt seems less than mysterious.

  35. 35.  Josh and I have been looking at Kenny Lofton and noting that he has played for about a million teams. We were wondering, who holds that record? The guy who has played for the most teams. We figured you experts would know…

  36. 36.  I haven’t looked at the #’s (I’ll look them up as soon as I finish typing this) but I can almost be sure that a guy like Mike Lowell has pretty mediocre #’s against Carmona just in the fact that Lowell is a pull hitter, maybe I’m wrong but I’ll check out the #’s right now.

  37. 37.  I just checked at Mike Lowell hasn’t faced Carmona but traditionally pull hitters don’t do to well against sinker ballers.

  38. 38.  35

    I think his last name is Morgan (his last name escapes me at the moment)

  39. 39.  38

    err, that should be his first name escapes me at the moment. shooting for 4-4

  40. 40.  38 Are you thinking of Mike Morgan? He pitched for like 15 or 16 teams or something silly like that.

  41. 41.  Reminds me of that old Nolan Ryan joke, “that sounded low, Ump.”

  42. 42.  40 Yeah, it’s Morgan with 12:


  43. 43.  Zeile ended up playing with 12 if you count his two stints with the Mets separately.

  44. 44.  Mike Morgan: Oakland, Yankees, Toronto, Seattle, Baltimore, Dodgers, Cubs, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Minnesota, Texas, Arizona

  45. 45.  That’s a special kind of ability-good enough to get a job, just never good enough to keep one very long. Like a very beautiful woman who is also very annoying-gets a lot of applicants, but no one ever takes the job.

  46. 46.  I’m taken to understand that Carmona pitches inside to right handed batters.

  47. 47.  By the way, if Lofton’s two Cleveland stints count separately he is the answer to the trivia. If not, he shares it with david Wells. Here are the players with the appearances in the postseason with the most teams (through 2006):

    Player CountOfteamID
    David Wells 6
    Kenny Lofton 6
    Danny Jackson 5
    Ellis Burks 5
    Bobby Bonilla 5
    Don Baylor 5
    Rickey Henderson 5
    John Olerud 5
    Alan Embree 5
    Reggie Sanders 5

  48. 48.  That’s why I hate the shift.

  49. 49.  46

    that’s just not fair, even if you wanted to hit it, forget about it, just sick.

  50. 50.  David Wells with six? New York. Toronto. Boston. What were the others?

  51. 51.  I wonder if Darren Dreiforts sinker was that nasty when he first came up.

  52. 52.  50 Cincinnati, Baltimore, San Diego.

  53. 53.  50

    Pads & Dodgers also but I don’t know the sixth one.

  54. 54.  52

    Cincy & Baltimore?? that’s news to me, I guess in his early career?

  55. 55.  Thank you, Baseballreference.com

    Wells in the postseason: New York, San Diego, Toronto, Boston, Cincinnati, Baltimore.

  56. 56.  well Lowell got a hit going the other way, he almost broke his bat in the process but he got ‘er done.

  57. 57.  Never with the Dodgers.

    Reds was 1995, Orioles was 1996.

  58. 58.  I’d be offended if I had Hefners Nick.

  59. 59.  53 He never went to the postseason with LA.

    54 Cincy in 95, O’s in 96 (the year before he went to the Yankees). He’s kicked around a bit.

  60. 60.  55 I didn’t use B-R.

  61. 61.  wow, that went really far.

  62. 62.  Schillings PVL didn’t help out much with that 3 run jack from Peralta.

  63. 63.  62 – nor with letting the two men get on before the hit.

  64. 64.  Schilling’s all smoke and mirrors now, and the smoke’s getting thin.

  65. 65.  Somewhere Weisman is humming, Whoops Jhonny Jhonny Jhonny whoops . . .

  66. 66.  64 We are getting our wires crossed here. That comment about Schilling is from Josh, not cinciwife…

  67. 67.  man, I’d hate being mic’d I’m pretty sure MLB forses them to get mic’d right!?

  68. 68.  60 Then your memory is way, way better than mine. I didn’t recall Cincinnati making it in 1995.

  69. 69.  Dude is nasty.

  70. 70.  68 I have more direct sources that B-R, is what I meant.

  71. 71.  Schilling’s breaking stuff is looking awfully flat.

  72. 72.  70

    show off…. :o)

  73. 73.  Don’t nibble, Curt.

  74. 74.  oh, jeepers.

  75. 75.  Don’t they have to get Schilling soon? It’s looking like BP out there.

  76. 76.  Don’t they have to get Schilling soon? It’s looking like BP out there.

  77. 77.  Mike Lowell is Terry Pendelton-esk at 3rd.

  78. 78.  Or maybe you just shouldn’t pitch at all. Just hold onto the ball, and make them come get it from you.

  79. 79.  Schilling has Loney type legs. Were they bend out ward from the knees down.

  80. 80.  MLB.com has that Sizemore pitch clocked at 88.7 MPH with a 4″ break. That was either a slow fastball or a non-breaking breaking pitch with a bit extra on it. Whatever it was, it’s gone.

  81. 81.  78 Worked for the Yankees in the Bad News Bears.

  82. 82.  Schilling is not showing much difference between his fastball and breaking pitches according to MLB.com’s Gameday numbers. His fastball is in the mid to upper 80s and his breaking pitches in the low to mid 80s. Francona is channeling Grady Little here sticking with this guy.

  83. 83.  That’s all she wrote for Schilling.

  84. 84.  67 I said the same thing just a few minutes ago. There is no way MLB would air me.

  85. 85.  82

    Francona seems a bit quicker with the trigger though, just a bit.

  86. 86.  85 He doesn’t have Pedro Martinez as a pitching coach.

  87. 87.  Manny Delcarmen’s living his dream: he grew up a Red Sox fan outside Boston. He’s got nasty stuff, too.

  88. 88.  (Big 1:33 here for Cal)

  89. 89.  87 Don’t you mean he’s living OUR dream?

  90. 90.  88
    (Shh, it’s the Pac-10….)

  91. 91.  David Ortiz has some pretty decent (sp) wheels for a big dude.

  92. 92.  (on Versus no less)

  93. 93.  There goes the Bad Man again….

  94. 94.  that was a short lived lead by the tribe…

  95. 95.  And Mike Lowell’s pretty good, too…

  96. 96.  We could face a situation where the Red Sox win the World Series, the Patriots win the Super Bowl, and Boston College win the BCS.

    That could be hard to take.

  97. 97.  Chase Wright, please pick up the white courtesy phone…..

  98. 98.  Nobody seems to have their good stuff. What is it, 50 degrees in Boston tonight?

  99. 99.  (Ugly end on Versus)

  100. 100.  does Boston even know J.D. Drew even exists? the guy is having a horrible year & I don’t think Bostonians even know it.

  101. 101.  96 No faith in Kevin Garnett?

  102. 102.  96

    we did that in ’88 no Bob (L.A. did it)

  103. 103.  Rafael Perez, meet Jose Mesa. Jose Mesa, this is Rafael Perez.

  104. 104.  The line between hero and goat is often a thin one.

  105. 105.  99 Aaaaaaaaarrrrgh! That was a more stupid brain cramp than Eric Byrnes and Miguel Tejada combined.

  106. 106.  I just want to let everyone know I may have turned this game around by turning my Red Sox hat backwards just prior to Manny’s blast.

  107. 107.  105
    The ghost of Roy Riegels laughs.

  108. 108.  105 As an Oregon native, I apologize profusely.

    Or is it gloat?

    Or is it ‘wonder what this game with the oddly shaped ball is about’?

  109. 109.  so, it appears that doing a top 25 in football this year just requires picking 25 teams from a hat and putting them in a list.

    101 – well, at least Anaheim has a decent shot at keeping the Stanley Cup, right?

  110. 110.  I think the eyes of America will be glued to the Boston College-South Florida BCS Championship game.

  111. 111.  109
    The Boston Bruins certainly aren’t going to win the Stanley Cup.

  112. 112.  It appears there was another college football upset? Can someone summarize for we ignorant Easterners?

  113. 113.  Lofton’s bad died a hero…

  114. 114.  Can someone talk about baseball? We have a 605 game with men at the corners and one out here. I don;t need to hear about inferior sports. And Anaheim won the Stanley Cup? They still play hockey?

  115. 115.  107 The worst part that I was holding my 3-month-old and frightened her when I yelled at the TV, and I made her cry. So not only am I suffering that awful loss, I feel terribly guilty on top of it.

    I am consoling myself with the fact that there is no way Cal is the best team in the country anyway. Their defense is way too soft for a #1 team.

  116. 116.  Sorry, that was none out and 6-5.

  117. 117.  112
    Oregon State beat #2 Cal in Berkeley 31-28. OSU lead 31-21 with 4 minutes to go. Cal scored on a long TD pass with about 2 1/2 minutes to go. OSU recovered the onside kick, but Cal forced a punt. Cal managed to get all the way to the OSU 12 and then this play transpired:

    1st and 10 at OSU 12
    Kevin Riley rush for 3 yards to the OrgSt 9.

    Cal had no timeouts.


  118. 118.  114 – just taking our cues from the play-by-play guys.

  119. 119.  Gutierrez with an Olney RBI!

  120. 120.  Ah, yes, a Productive Out. How gutty.

  121. 121.  118 You are trying to emulate McCarver and Buck?!?!

  122. 122.  114
    I can send you an Anaheim Ducks Stanley Cup winner t-shirt if you’d like.

  123. 123.  120 – better than a strike out for the Indians

  124. 124.  121 – relax man, it was a joke.

  125. 125.  This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for from this series (though, I’m sure, far from yours, Josh). Lots of back and forth, lots of fun, always in doubt.

  126. 126.  121
    So who will be starting Game 6? Let’s discuss that for a while…

  127. 127.  Casey Blake looks so much like Hendy of the Dodgers.

  128. 128.  125 “though, I’m sure, far from yours, Josh”

    somewhere in my head, I had the word ‘ideal’, and it made all that make much more sense. Shame it never actually made it to the post itself.

  129. 129.  Buck said “Ham Fighters.”

    He’s dead to me!

    Dead to me!

  130. 130.  We could do a few minutes on how Carmona works inside to right-handed batters.

  131. 131.  The list has been updated:

  132. 132.  129 : Dammit, I raced to the computer to note this, but alas I was too late.

  133. 133.  123 That’s exactly the point. There’s nothing special about productive outs, except that they are not strikeouts. Measuring them or trying to prove something using them is just silly.

  134. 134.  129 – it took him saying Ham Fighters to get you there? You are much more tolerant than me.

  135. 135.  Asdrubal??? in a million years I couldn’t dream up that name.

  136. 136.  131: Harry and David will be pleased they can serve you without fear.

  137. 137.  129 Why would you fight ham, anyway? It’s like a combat gateway drug. First you’re fighting ham, then you’re trying to beat up some bacon, and eventually you’re in a battle with deliciousness itself, and trust me, you don’t want to get in a fight with deliciousness.

  138. 138.  133 – no run scores on a strike out, on that play a run scored, that is a huge difference. it is the difference between being tied and losing the game.

  139. 139.  133 – and other productive outs create situations where a run is more likely to score. Moving a runner from second to third on the first out of the inning means the runner should score on any ball that is put in play. Moving a runner to second allows a runner to score on most any hit.

  140. 140.  138

    Amen brotha…

  141. 141.  135
    It wouldn’t take a million years to come up with the name Asdrubal, but it was all the rage among elite Carthaginians, 27 centuries ago.


  142. 142.  So was that the first time Buck and McCarver brought up the Yankees tonight?

  143. 143.  You didn’t really think Coco Crisp was going to hit a home run, did you?

  144. 144.  Fox Sports needs perspective.

    In the literal sense. They shot that flyball from a poor angle.

  145. 145.  Justin Lewis? There must be someone whose job it is to correct McCarvers mistakes and malapropisms via his ear piece.

  146. 146.  I’d wear a mask if I were a Red Sox fan, too. (That was a joke, by the way.)

  147. 147.  According to my cable box, the postgame show should be wrapping up in about 10 minutes.

  148. 148.  “A run on the market for Japanese relief pitchers,” says Ken Rosenthal.

    Time to get the SEC to step in. Or the Federal Reserve. There could be a Japanese Reliever Bubble.

  149. 149.  All right, now it’s time for “Cops.”

    Hey, my cable box wouldn’t lie to me.

  150. 150.  148 – I was thinking of making a college football joke, but I don’t want to offend the locals

  151. 151.  Is fox sweetening the sound? That liner from Ortiz sounded like a rifle shot.

  152. 152.  hearing that this guy has screws in his elbow, I thought of the 6 million dollar man, and that got me to thinking, what would it cost today, thanks to the internet I now know that to rebuild Steve Austin today, it would $26.3 mil

  153. 153.  150 No, go ahead. I enjoy a good college football joke almost as much as another Frank TV commercial.

  154. 154.  152
    Does that take into account the decrease overall in the price of bionic parts? Once a standard caught on and everybody started buying more, bionic arms were just as cheap as DVD players.

  155. 155.  Not to overemphasis the outcome of this game, but home teams up 2-0 in a 7-G series win 76% of the time. 1-1 after the first two, the favored team wins 51% of the time.

  156. 156.  Now that I’ve seen that Avis commercial with the GPS and the Bonnie Tyler song, I can tell that it was filmed on two different freeways.

    I’ve had a lot of time to analyze that commercial.

  157. 157.  I know most of you are now thinking, “Wow, what a game, what teams, this is the real World Series right here.

    But I am thinking, “This is it? Really? The Rockies could handle either of these teams no problem.”

    This is the weirdest year ever.

  158. 158.  154 – I may need some more research.

    155 – I tend to think of game 2 as the third most important in a 7 game series: game 3; game 5; game 2. Of course, this all assumes it doesn’t go 7 games, because game 7 would then be the most important.

  159. 159.  158 Game 7 usually is pretty important too.

  160. 160.  Replace your divets.

  161. 161.  158
    I got a bionic arm at Radio Shack last week. I put in the closet for an emergency.

  162. 162.  Francona really think Crisp is the best defensive CF he has ever seen? Better than Jones in his prime?

  163. 163.  Dusty Baker to Cinci, thank you various baseball gods!

  164. 164.  Poor Cincinnati. Poor Cincinnati.

    (cue demonic evil villain laugh)

  165. 165.  Sorry, Reds fans

  166. 166.  Dusty Baker and the Reds. That’s a match made in heaven.

  167. 167.  If the Giants and Cubs are any indication, a Dusty Baker hire more or less guarantees one ugly playoff flameout and a salted-earth farm system. But, on the other hand, adorable batboys!

  168. 168.  161 – you’re a risk taker. First, buying something from Radio Shack. Second, there’s Frink’s Principles of Robotics to worry about.

  169. 169.  I don’t see how the Reds are going to be able to keep pace with the Cubs next year.

    And I can’t believe I would think the Cubs are a team anyone would ever have to “keep pace” with.

  170. 170.  I’d like to thank the CNN affiliate over here in Italy for giving me some baseball highlights…from yesterday’s games. Oh well, back to the channel where topless girls dance around with a bunch of phone numbers on the screen.

  171. 171.  Good god, Dusty Baker, they did not consult me on this decision… I can’t stand him and his batboys!!!

  172. 172.  “The clock strikes past twelve.” Thank you, Captain Eloquent.

  173. 173.  Nice change of pace for the K looking!

  174. 174.  “Lowell having trouble getting around on the fast ball”

    Now I hope Colletti is watching with the sound on

  175. 175.  171
    There’s a Reds fan at Baseball Toaster! Wow!

  176. 176.  167 At this point I suppose Cincinnati fans would welcome being in the playoffs in the first place, even if only as a precondition to a repeat of Game 6 of the ’02 World Series or Games 6 & 7 of the ’03 NLCS.

  177. 177.  This might be the first time we go 2 innings without a run this entire game.

  178. 178.  This might be the first time we go 2 innings without a run this entire game.

  179. 179.  170 Yes, I used to live in Holland. “Oh Ja! Bell deze nummer voor de beste sex van je leven.” (Oh yes, dial this number for the best sex of your life!!). Hilarious.

  180. 180.  171 Particularly considering how many of us have grudges agaist the Reds for one reason or another. I always dutifully inform people that the Reds are my second-least favorite team after the Yankees, and I don’t even remember why anymore — it’s mostly I think because it proves my depth as a baseball fan that I have a second-least-favorite team.

    Although the Diamondbacks (or more specifically their fans) are really running up (or down?) the charts the postseason.

  181. 181.  175 Yeah, and I am NOT happy about this! He really gets under my skin.

  182. 182.  179

    how can you even get in the mood when you don’t understand the language though!?

  183. 183.  180

    it’s a 2nd generation thing with me, my dad respected there great play but didn’t like ’em much cause they rocked in the 70’s, dad was a Dodger fan also.

  184. 184.  179 I guess it’s good that I can’t read Italian. Unfortunately, the show is now over, so there’s absolutely nothing worth watching on.

    When I was in Venice the other night, there were no less than 7 channels showing late-night phone number nudity shows.

  185. 185.  182 They’re speaking swedish chef-ese. It’s close enough to get the job done, I suspect.

  186. 186.  180 I didn’t like them because

    1) They played in the NL West while the Cubs played in the NL East, and that didn’t make any sense because Cincinnati is way east of Chicago;

    2) I loved the Bash Brothers and hated the Nasty Boys and the 1990 World Series was a huge bummer;


    3) I was a really sensitive, quiet, bookish kid and around when I was 9 or 10 I became completely obsessed with Jackie Robinson (still am) and I could not accept the cognitive dissonance of the game Jackie supposedly liberated harboring an owner like Marge Schott.

  187. 187.  does it seem strange to anyone else that Fenway has a digital clock but a manual scoreboard?

  188. 188.  180 I am glad someone points out the depth in a fan. I have 2 although they seem to be opposite from yours. Yankees are my number one and Reds my number two (although my parents may be upset by the ranking since they did all that work in Cinci-conceiving I mean)

  189. 189.  187 Old school meets new school! I think McCarver needs to go on a diatribe about it.

  190. 190.  179 yeah, that’s the funny thing, it’s so NOT hot!!

  191. 191.  The plate umps have been extremely inconsistent with the outside calls this entire postseason. This guy’s been better than most but just missed one.

  192. 192.  191 It’s unbelievable how much the league office misses Sandy Alderson.

  193. 193.  Wow, Josh Barfield is black? What’s the opposite of a Reggie Cleveland All-Star?

  194. 194.  beautiful, you steal a base but take the bat out of the hands of possibly your best hitter.

  195. 195.  I’m am so sick of hearing about how important Dave Roberts’ stolen base was. I’m a huge fan of the stolen base, but for the love of all things holy and unholy, the Red Sox still had to win three more games after that.

  196. 196.  195 It was Roberts’ finest moment.

  197. 197.  193
    Didn’t you watch any Rockies-Padres games last year?

  198. 198.  197 Apparently it never registered, much like Barfield’s entire major league career to this point.

  199. 199.  Bring on Borowski!!!!

  200. 200.  Mike Lowell has a pretty slick glove

  201. 201.  Who do you want up against Papelbon, Garko with men on first and second and two out or Martinez with a man on first and two outs? I’d rather have the lion eat the bear.

  202. 202.  196 – I don’t disagree, it was a great moment for Roberts.

    There is a trend among Red Sox lore that annoys me. Roberts steal was in game 4. Buckner was in game 6. Fisk’s home run was in game 6. These were not the moments that won or lost each series, there were more games to play after them.

  203. 203.  Josh Barfield is the son of Jesse Barfield.

  204. 204.  199

    Cleveland will hold there collective breath…

  205. 205.  Josh Barfield played in 18 games against the Rockies last year. And he hit four home runs against them.

  206. 206.  203

    He’s also have Venezuelian I think.

  207. 207.  203 I guess that explains the additional mystery of why Josh was born in Venezuela.

  208. 208.  195 : I can understand being sick of seeing that (i have no idea why they just showed it), but it was a HUGE turning point, plus the fact that it was a stolen base added luster: it was a skill the lumbering Red Sox had rarely been able to use. Mainly, the steal and the subsequent run scored just gave us this feeling: we’re alive!!! You thought you killed us but we’re alive!

  209. 209.  If Josh Barfield had his father’s arm, he’d be a shortstop.

  210. 210.  208
    Especially with the franchise single-season stolen base leader being Tommy Harper.

  211. 211.  The flipside of the Roberts thing is the problem the Rockies have with Willy Taveras: The Red Sox stayed alive and were eventually able to win the World Series because of the stolen base. Therefore stolen bases are good. Therefore we should play a guy who can steal bases ALL THE TIME and maybe two or three of them if we can get them. Doesn’t matter if they have no other useful skills because stolen bases are super useful, just look at the Red Sox and Dave Roberts.

  212. 212.  208 – dude, I’m a Dodger fan, I know the feeling, I remember exactly where I was as a ten year old kid listening to Gibson’s home run in the 88 Series. It’s likely just my annoyance with “The World According to ESPN”™. You’d think it was the most important play in the history of baseball.

  213. 213.  Does Pedroia remind anyone else of Mark Lemke?

  214. 214.  It’s a shame tomorrow is a travel day, what with McCarver losing his voice.

  215. 215.  212
    But really cool people think the most important play in any game or series of games happens at some moment that will only be realized later.

    Game-ending plays are so easy to figure out.

  216. 216.  UGH, did you guys hear McCarver just now. get it out dude.

  217. 217.  How often do you see a team pinch-run for its leadoff man?

  218. 218.  Pedroia is a highball hitter at the waist? McCarver is a good announcer off-mike.

  219. 219.  213
    But isn’t Pedroia supposed to be good?

  220. 220.  217 My impression is the Red Sox are big fans of pinch running. I think it’s an underutilized aspect of the game and the Red Sox do it well with their roster construction and game management.

  221. 221.  220 I agree completely. The part of the Roberts myth dumb teams forget is that Roberts’ entire role on the team was to be a fast guy off the bench. Sign him or someone like him to be an everyday outfielder and you reap your own reward.

  222. 222.  The last team in the postseason to pinch-run for its leadoff hitter was …

    Boston on October 8, 2003 in Game 1 of the ALCS.

    Damian Jackson pinch ran for Todd Walker in the 8th inning.

    Gabe White picked him off.

  223. 223.  Wow, I just looked at Ortiz’s numbers after the c-word reared it’s head in the game. Those number differences between Minnesota and Boston are absurd, is there any logical explanation for them?

  224. 224.  Hey Josh, is Youkilis a dead pull hitter or does he spray the ball around? he seems to have a pretty quick stroke.

  225. 225.  223 Ball

  226. 226.  220 221 Right, but my point is that you save those guys for the slow guys in the middle of your lineup, not your leadoff hitter, unless he’s Brian Downing.

  227. 227.  There were 29 pinch runners for leadoff hitters in the regular season, although I would think some of them were for pitchers after double switches or late inning subs.


  228. 228.  221 Yeah. You can use a PR just about every game. If you’re losing there is always some marginal advantage to get with a PR if you get a guy on base. If you’re blowing somebody out you can sub in your PR as a mop-up player. With all the specialization in the bullpen I’m amazed teams don’t construct their bench with a pinch runner.

  229. 229.  222 Walket led off for the Red Sox, wow.

  230. 230.  That’s the same area as when that kid robbed a catcher last week.

  231. 231.  228 – just imagine the chaos if the designated runner would have passed with the designated hitter

  232. 232.  The Mariners were the pinch-runningest team in the majors this year with 58 instances. The Phillies led the NL with 56.

    Arizona and Milwaukee only had 11 pinch runners each.

  233. 233.  228 You answered your own question. 12 pitchers, 7 in the pen, means there’s no space for a baserunning specialist.

  234. 234.  With all the off-days and new rules regarding roster changes mid-series in the event of injury, I am amazed teams still carry backup catchers on the playoff rosters. Chris Iannetta’s name is probably not going to appear in a box score this entire postseason and the Rockies have a lot of situationally useful young talent that could better take his place. Of course, if Yorvit Torrealba got hurt in the first inning of a game, it would look really bad, but… it’s the playoffs! Risk and reward!

  235. 235.  4:21. Last night’s NLCS game is about to be eclipsed.
    Incidentally, I have a theory that the 10th inning rarely is the last inning of a game. If a game goes extra innings, they usually seem to go 11+. Is my hunch on statistically sound ground?

  236. 236.  234 This obviously does not apply to the Red Sox with the unique Wakefield/Mirabelli dynamic.

  237. 237.  Probably not a surprise to Mike, but Michael Bourn led the majors in pinch-running appearances this year with 34.

  238. 238.  235 Maybe in the postseason where both teams are exerting their full efforts on winning, but in the regular season my anecdotal experience suggests that a healthy percentage of extra-inning games are over in 10. I’ll bet Bob T has a stat, though.

  239. 239.  233 You could have a pinch-running pitcher. I remember Ron Guidry being an occaisional PR as a rookie. Pitchers are supposed to be baseball players too and baserunning is part of the game. There are probably secondary benefits to teaching your pitchers to be baserunners — it would help them understand how to keep runner close.

  240. 240.  235
    Without checking any stats, I would assume that the most frequent final inning for an extra inning game is Inning #10.

  241. 241.  224 : He can hit opposite field gap shots. Oh, why didn’t he hit an opposite field gap shot!?!?

  242. 242.  237 Yep, that was Chahlie’s way of pulling Burrell.

  243. 243.  I would guess that the 10th inning is lower scoring than most, if not all, other innings, because both teams tend to have their best reliever in there, just like this game.

  244. 244.  The smartest man in baseball just did something kinda stupid.

  245. 245.  Does Guitierez have nude pictures of Wedge or something? He can’t stay in at this point because of “his defense”.

  246. 246.  For god’s sake, bring on Borowski.

  247. 247.  Pinch-running pitchers this year:
    Noah Lowry, 4 times
    Ian Snell, 3
    Joel Pineiro, 3
    Jason Marquis, 3
    Randy Wolf, 2
    Chuck James, 2
    Adam Eaton, 2
    Brandon Backe, 2
    Brett Tomko, 1
    Brad Thompson, 1
    Wandy Rodriguez, 1
    Jake Peavy, 1

  248. 248.  This is a pretty entertaining game.

  249. 249.  243 In the postseason. Most managers tend to keep rigid one-inning shackles on their closers during the regular season; for example Valverde’s extension in the tenth last inning was only his second appearance of more than three outs for the entire season.

  250. 250.  Whoa, Fox is playing the Flaming Lips’ “Yeah Yeah Yeah Song” for a Papi montage, that’s pretty cool. Although totally not what that song was intended to mean.

  251. 251.  defensive swing by Franklin Gutierrez if I were a hitting coach I wouldn’t like that approach from my hitters, I can understand not trying to strike out but that swing was SO defensive, have some confidence & attack the ball or AT LEAST shorten up your swing & think up the middle or apposite field.

  252. 252.  In 2007,
    220 games went 10 innings.
    123 went 11.
    64 went 12.
    31 went 13.
    15 went 14. (That sounds confusing, sorry)
    6 went 15.
    3 went 16.
    2 went 17.

  253. 253.  247

    Wandy Wodwiguez also, I’m shocked.

  254. 254.  243 That is part of my thinking, combined with the batters being more inclined to swing for the fences instead of working the count. Seems like a lot of strikeouts and fly outs in the 10th.

    Of course, this is entirely anecdotal — I’m not a stat savant like most of the toaster commenters.

  255. 255.  252 So a shade under 50% went only one additional inning. If I’d had to guesstimate, I would have said 45-55%, so that makes me feel smart.

    But I also thought that Marcos Carvajal was going to be a big major league star.

  256. 256.  Welcome to the jungle!

  257. 257.  253 I taught I taw a tolen base.

  258. 258.  Eric Gagne is the Borowski of the BoSox I think no?

  259. 259.  Good god, don’t bring on Gagne.

  260. 260.  255 And Juan Salas.

  261. 261.  256 Better to be called a stat savant than a stat idiot.

  262. 262.  2006 had 185 10-inning games and 104 11-inning games.

  263. 263.  252 All time totals:

    Num Innings #G %
    10 6255 44%
    11 3490 25%
    12 1962 14%
    13 1060 8%
    14 619 4%
    15 319 2%
    16 187 1%
    17 100 1%
    18 52 0%
    19 28 0%
    20 14 0%
    21 9 0%
    22 6 0%
    23 2 0%
    24 2 0%
    25 2 0%
    Total 14107 100%

  264. 264.  263
    Those can’t be ALL-time totals since there is no 26-inning game listed.

  265. 265.  Sizemore!

  266. 266.  252 Bob comes through with actual numbers. Thank you.
    220 10 inning games and 244 11+ inning games, which is kind of interesting in itself.

  267. 267.  I think Gagne’s problem is the beard, mainly that he’s let his cheeks and neck get shaggy, I don’t remember him having anything other than the goatee for the Dodgers.

  268. 268.  264 Yeah, that 1920 game didn’t come up. let me check…

  269. 269.  Gagne had a full beard last year for the Dodgers.

    Not that anyone got to see it:


  270. 270.  There are some weird distributions for run support by team. The Yankees got shut out more this year than the Devil Rays. It would be interesting to see there are glitches with higher run totals. It seems like there might be a point where teams start pouring on the runs against the dregs of the bullpen.

  271. 271.  267 The only nice think I can usually think to say of the Yankees is that they keep the players from getting overly scruffy.

  272. 272.  I want Gagne to come back to the Dodgers some day so I don’t know if him sucking here will help or hinder that illogical fantasy of mine.

    Man, if this game continues on much longer, given the late hour on the east coast, will Tim McCarver continue to get hoarser and more and more coherent to the point where he’s rasping gibberish? I almost want to see this go a few more innings just to witness the horror.

  273. 273.  man, it’s so bad/weird/sad seeing Gagne, the not so great closer being taken out.

  274. 274.  267 : My wife just said of Gagne: “Pube-face needs to leave the game.”

  275. 275.  270 – meet the 2007 Arizona Diamondbacks.

    271 – being bearded myself, it’s just one more reason for me not to like los Yanquis

  276. 276.  271 As a long-time Yankee fan I miss the scruff. Gossage, Munson, even Mattingly a bit — they’ve had their share of scruff. Now they are a bunch of clean shaven bores.

  277. 277.  It’s too bad Papelbon stayed a reliever because a World Series game between he and Jeff Francis (presuming of course that the Rockies win 2 of their next 5 games and Boston wins their series) would be hilarious. The “Can’t Grow a Beard” faceoff!

  278. 278.  I want to see if this game can outlast the late game in the Pac-10 (Washington at Arizona State) which started at 7:15 pm PT. There are 12 minutes left in that game.

  279. 279.  278 Awwww, why did you have to remind me about the existence of the Pac-10? I was doing such a good job of blocking Cal’s loss out, and now….

  280. 280.  276 The Goose graduated from my high school. His mustache is still extremely awesome.

  281. 281.  Christopher Trot Nixon!

  282. 282.  Good for Nixon!

  283. 283.  279 – at least your alma mater has a football team.

  284. 284.  280 A-Rod should grow a fumanchu.

  285. 285.  Huh, don’t see that everyday

  286. 286.  JayMike sighting.

  287. 287.  276 The Goose graduated from my high school. His mustache is still extremely awesome.

  288. 288.  The second run should not count against Gagne.

  289. 289.  283 No, on the whole this is a good thing… I care about baseball way way more than I do about college football, and if my teams were 2 games away from the World Series and ranked #1 in the nation simultaneously I wouldn’t be able to sleep for all the paranoia I’d have waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  290. 290.  287 Hey, did you know that Gossage went to my High School?

    Seriously, I don’t know how I managed that double post.

  291. 291.  268 It didn’t come up in my query since it ended in a tie.

  292. 292.  The bad news for Boston is the Indians still have their closer left in the pen. The good news is it’s Joe Borowski….and then the wheels came off.

    Maybe it won’t even be a save situation.

  293. 293.  I hate Eric Gagne very much. I miss Trot Nixon.

  294. 294.  288 It counts because of the hit after the wild pitch.

  295. 295.  The Sox bullpen’s empty. I guess Wade Boggs comes in next.

  296. 296.  Jhonny Peralta has been mhost excellent.

  297. 297.  Most runs in an ALCS extra inning ever.

    There have been two four-run extra inning frames in the NL.

  298. 298.  see everyone in Cleveland

  299. 299.  297
    And Franklin Gutierrez has made my comment useless.

  300. 300.  Pin drop at Fenway with that shot.

  301. 301.  Has anyone seen an explanation for Peralta’s spelling of his first name?

    What’s left to say about this game?

  302. 302.  I don’t care who wins, I only care that it goes a full seven. Everything is going… excellently (Mr. Burns tent fingers).

  303. 303.  Largest margin of victory in an extra-inning postseason game was 4 in the 1995 NLCS. Atlanta beat Cincy 6-2 in the 10th.

  304. 304.  301 dyslexia?

  305. 305.  301 It’s Nomar backwards.

  306. 306.  251. Bluebleeder87

    defensive swing by Franklin Gutierrez if I were a hitting coach I wouldn’t like that approach from my hitters, I can understand not trying to strike out but that swing was SO defensive, have some confidence & attack the ball or AT LEAST shorten up your swing & think up the middle or apposite field.
    – – –
    Not so defensive this AB.

  307. 307.  301
    Presumably, Mr. Peralta’s parents wanted a unique spelling. I doubt it’s anything more complicated than that. Parents have been doing that for a long time.

    Witness my first name. It’s really pronounced “Edward.”

  308. 308.  307 Yeah, that’s what I told my mother when she asked me.

    We’ve got a mixed team fandom going here; she’s for the Sox, I’m for the Indians. We may not be speaking after tonight’s implosion.

  309. 309.  There are other Jhonnys if you Google the name. A salsa dancer, a boxer. I don’t think it’s that uncommon.

  310. 310.  301 From Wikipedia:

    The unusual spelling of his first name is attributed to a clerical error on his birth certificate.1 He has refused to have it changed. The letter combinations “Jh” or “Gh” are sometimes used in the Spanish language to represent the English “J” sound, as the “J” in Spanish is normally pronounced as an English “H”.

  311. 311.  So is the MTA still running at this hour?

    And is Charlie still on it?

  312. 312.  yeah, that was a great cut, I wonder if his hitting coach told ’em anything or maybe it was all Gutierrez.

  313. 313.  On Off day Wed? Why can’t they have a 7-G 1st round?

  314. 314.  4:29 to go in Tempe….

  315. 315.  310 I hope the clerk got fired. How can you screw up a common name like Johnny?

    Why Johnny Can’t Read: famous book of the fifties or sixties.

  316. 316.  They have an off day Wed? Why can’t the 1st round go 7 games?

  317. 317.  312 I think that happens a lot in baseball. A bad at-bat and then the coach will tell you “don’t cheat yourself, get a rip in”.

  318. 318.  311 Did he ever return, no, he never returned
    and his fate is still unlearned…

  319. 319.  The key is to make sure Game 1 of the World Series is on Wednesday.

  320. 320.  311 Time to walk home, I think:

    The first trains start early in the morning (between 5 and 5:30 am) and last trains finish between midnight and 12:50, depending on the stop. Most stations have signs that indicate the time of the last train each night.

    If you’re out past 12:30 or so, plan either taking a taxi or The Night Owl Bus, which runs until 2:30 am on Friday and Saturday nights.

  321. 321.  Tough loss if you are a Boston fan. That big Manny HR, Lowell going back-to-back. Cleveland is a resilient team.

  322. 322.  320 Don’t they run specials for ball games?

  323. 323.  311

    some buses run 24/7 I’d hate being stranded in downtown L.A. at midnight.

  324. 324.  The website says trains will run until 20 minutes after the conclusion of the game.

    So if you’re at Fenway, HURRY!

  325. 325.  311 That was one of the songs we learned in 5th grade along with gems like “Tom Dooley”, some song about pralines, and “Salty Dog”. I’m still not sure why.

  326. 326.  324 Boy, you can killed waiting on that overcrowded platform too.

  327. 327.  It’s a fight. I figured it would be. Bosox show their soft underbelly–they can only go two or three deep into the pen.

  328. 328.  Actually, the subway/train in L.A. runs after 1 am.

    But then you actually have to find it. And put up with our other weird customs. Such as stopping at “Don’t Walk” signs when there is no traffic around.

  329. 329.  Just checked the RTD-Denver website, fortunately the light rail runs until about 2AM. I don’t want to get stranded after Monday’s Rockies game.

  330. 330.  325
    The Kingston Trio affect everyone.

  331. 331.  327 Bud Selig is loving this series.

    A 7 game series with Boston might make up for the crickets watching the NLCS.

  332. 332.  At Dodger Stadium, they let you walk to your car in the parking lot no matter how long the game lasts!

  333. 333.  Are Chicago and NY the only US cities to have 24/7 public trains?

  334. 334.  I wonder what the air temp was at the end of the game.

    Why can’t they at least play day games on the weekends?

  335. 335.  334
    Because I would have missed the game.

  336. 336.  Day games are bad for baseball. Just ask a casual fan.

  337. 337.  335 Not Good Enough.

  338. 338.  336 So is 45 degree weather.

  339. wow 338 posts…..i clicked on the link thinking ‘i cant believe how many people commented on the arstic blur of the crowd’….
    3 years later I will the next post and say hats off to a wonderful expose and attention to detail on a card i probably tossed away as kid.

    I tossed it away because I hated Wise when Cleveland traded my favorite player Dennis Eckersly for him.
    I believe we got Tex Cox (who I hated because he was going to replace my other favorite indian, buddy bell at 3rd), Mike Paxton (who i hated because his card was drawn at the time) and bo diaz (who i hated, just because he was part of the deal)

    I met Fred Kendall, the catcher the indians threw in to the deal, when i lived in LA in the 90s. We were both in physical therapy together. I tore a ligament in my ankle, while he seemed to be there for just something to do.

    The photo must have been taken in cleveland. I believe that is their home uniform and one blurred spectator seem to have a blue indians shirt with red indians name across it. He appears to be bald with a beard and heading towards the steps, probably to get another beer.
    All the circles in the background remind me of empty beer cups that fans would possible makeshift into beer googles to watch those horrible indians.

    I wonder how many cards that year had that motif

  340. OK, I randomly went through 60 cards from that year, and although a few cards had the blurred crowd effect, NONE had the sheer alien, googly eyed background of fans of the rick wise card. Fascinating. Fascinating as it gets for me on this rainy Friday night in Cleveland.

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: