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	<title>Comments on: Tom Seaver, 1978</title>
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	<description>Voice of the Mathematically Eliminated</description>
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		<title>By: parlo</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7956</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parlo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;33.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;32: Expansion was more a result of the changing demographics in this country. It had more to do with whether a city(market) could support a team.
Also, integration after 1947 had the biggest impact on the talent pool. Look at all the players in the 1950-1970 era that would not have been eligible to play in an earlier era (foreign or US born).


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>33.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;32: Expansion was more a result of the changing demographics in this country. It had more to do with whether a city(market) could support a team.<br />
Also, integration after 1947 had the biggest impact on the talent pool. Look at all the players in the 1950-1970 era that would not have been eligible to play in an earlier era (foreign or US born).</p>
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		<title>By: 68elcamino427</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7955</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[68elcamino427]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;32.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;&lt;a href=&quot;#31&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;31&lt;/a&gt; 
&lt;strong&gt;since the 1950&#039;s&lt;/strong&gt;
Is ther a correlation between when the leagues started adding teams - and when the increase in talent coming from outside the US accelerated?


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>32.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="#31" rel="nofollow">31</a><br />
<strong>since the 1950&#8242;s</strong><br />
Is ther a correlation between when the leagues started adding teams &#8211; and when the increase in talent coming from outside the US accelerated?</p>
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		<title>By: parlo</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parlo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;31.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;Feller 122, Spahn 118, Petite 117, Oswalt 139,
Tim Hudson 126, Steve Carlton 115, Kevin Appier 121, Tom Seaver 127, Curt Schilling 127, Kevin Brown 127, Bob Gibson 127,Zambrano 128, Koufax 131, Marichal 123, Palmer 126.

Maybe in 20 years or so, they will be able to better evaluate the current era, and notice that there was a difference between Andy Petite and Warren Spahn.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>31.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;Feller 122, Spahn 118, Petite 117, Oswalt 139,<br />
Tim Hudson 126, Steve Carlton 115, Kevin Appier 121, Tom Seaver 127, Curt Schilling 127, Kevin Brown 127, Bob Gibson 127,Zambrano 128, Koufax 131, Marichal 123, Palmer 126.</p>
<p>Maybe in 20 years or so, they will be able to better evaluate the current era, and notice that there was a difference between Andy Petite and Warren Spahn.</p>
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		<title>By: sb1902</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sb1902]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;30.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;My favorite sabernerd, Rob Neyer, chimed in on this entry Friday: 

&quot;Josh Wilker wonders what it was about those pitchers of the 1990s that allowed them to post those crazy-low ERA&#039;s relative to their leagues. Were they really that good? And so many of them at the same time? Josh thinks maybe they weren&#039;t, and I&#039;m inclined to agree with him. I don&#039;t think he&#039;s quite figured out the mechanism of those bizarrely brilliant ERA+&#039;s; I don&#039;t think I have, either (though I think I&#039;ve come a little closer than he has). What I really think, though, is that it&#039;s almost certainly not possible that all the best pitchers of the last 50 years just happened to pitch at almost exactly the same time. &quot;


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>30.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;My favorite sabernerd, Rob Neyer, chimed in on this entry Friday: </p>
<p>&#8220;Josh Wilker wonders what it was about those pitchers of the 1990s that allowed them to post those crazy-low ERA&#8217;s relative to their leagues. Were they really that good? And so many of them at the same time? Josh thinks maybe they weren&#8217;t, and I&#8217;m inclined to agree with him. I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s quite figured out the mechanism of those bizarrely brilliant ERA+&#8217;s; I don&#8217;t think I have, either (though I think I&#8217;ve come a little closer than he has). What I really think, though, is that it&#8217;s almost certainly not possible that all the best pitchers of the last 50 years just happened to pitch at almost exactly the same time. &#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: parlo</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parlo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;29.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;&lt;a href=&quot;#20&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;20&lt;/a&gt; That&#039;s why I stated that &quot;the talent pool hasn&#039;t expanded so much as it has shifted.&quot; Teams have been scouting Latin America since the 1950&#039;s.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>29.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="#20" rel="nofollow">20</a> That&#8217;s why I stated that &#8220;the talent pool hasn&#8217;t expanded so much as it has shifted.&#8221; Teams have been scouting Latin America since the 1950&#8242;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Enders</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Enders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;28.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;If one is going to argue for human moments over numbers, then there is no candidate for the 1981 Cy Young Award other than Fernando Valenzuela.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>28.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;If one is going to argue for human moments over numbers, then there is no candidate for the 1981 Cy Young Award other than Fernando Valenzuela.</p>
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		<title>By: rangers1994</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rangers1994]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;27.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;&lt;a href=&quot;#26&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;26&lt;/a&gt; Whoops, I meant to link to &lt;a href=&quot;#18&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;18&lt;/a&gt; .


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>27.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="#26" rel="nofollow">26</a> Whoops, I meant to link to <a href="#18" rel="nofollow">18</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: rangers1994</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rangers1994]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;26.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;&lt;a href=&quot;#9&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;9&lt;/a&gt; Dick Young did not keep Seaver off the ballot because he thought GTS was not in the top three. Dick kept Tom off because Dick&#039;s son-in-law worked for Mets owner M. Donald Grant in the marketing department, and Grant did not want Seaver to win a Cy Young with Cincinnati, figuring that would be more bad publicity and yet another reason for Mets fans to hate him and maybe stop going to see games at Grant&#039;s Tomb. (Young had been attacking Seaver in the New York press for years.)

I don&#039;t know who Young did vote for, but had he voted for Seaver 2nd, that would have tied Seaver with Valenzuela, only if he had voted for Valenzuela number 1. (Seaver and Fernando both had 8 first-place votes, Carlton 5, Ryan 3.) Had Young voted for Seaver 1st, that would have given Seaver five more points, and maybe fewer for Valenzuela (who might have gone from five points to three points), meaning Seaver would have won the Cy Young.

But forget about the numbers; the main thing is that Dick Young kept Seaver off the ballot for purely personal reasons -- and should have had his voting rights taken away immediately.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>26.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="#9" rel="nofollow">9</a> Dick Young did not keep Seaver off the ballot because he thought GTS was not in the top three. Dick kept Tom off because Dick&#8217;s son-in-law worked for Mets owner M. Donald Grant in the marketing department, and Grant did not want Seaver to win a Cy Young with Cincinnati, figuring that would be more bad publicity and yet another reason for Mets fans to hate him and maybe stop going to see games at Grant&#8217;s Tomb. (Young had been attacking Seaver in the New York press for years.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know who Young did vote for, but had he voted for Seaver 2nd, that would have tied Seaver with Valenzuela, only if he had voted for Valenzuela number 1. (Seaver and Fernando both had 8 first-place votes, Carlton 5, Ryan 3.) Had Young voted for Seaver 1st, that would have given Seaver five more points, and maybe fewer for Valenzuela (who might have gone from five points to three points), meaning Seaver would have won the Cy Young.</p>
<p>But forget about the numbers; the main thing is that Dick Young kept Seaver off the ballot for purely personal reasons &#8212; and should have had his voting rights taken away immediately.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Simkus</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Simkus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;25.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;I say to hell with baseball; the old pastime played between chalk lines, by gentlemen in pajamas.  Gimme Math!


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>25.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;I say to hell with baseball; the old pastime played between chalk lines, by gentlemen in pajamas.  Gimme Math!</p>
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		<title>By: Ennui Willie Keeler</title>
		<link>http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ennui Willie Keeler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cardboardgods.net/2008/12/11/tom-seaver-1978/#comment-7947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;24.&lt;/b&gt;&#160;&#160;Thanks, Eric.  I wanted to know, but I&#039;m multitasking here.  Work&#039;s been keeping me busy since September.  I&#039;m even posting less at Primer most days lately.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a></a>24.</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks, Eric.  I wanted to know, but I&#8217;m multitasking here.  Work&#8217;s been keeping me busy since September.  I&#8217;m even posting less at Primer most days lately.</p>
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